early 1979? tENTATIVELY, a cONVENIENCE interviewed about fashion by Bonnie Bonnell
[interviewee's note: This interview was conducted no later than early 1979. Baltimore painter Bonnie Bonnell was accumulating interviews re fashion for some project that may've never been realized. It was probably recorded. Bonnie then sloppily typed a transcription. Instead of transcribing her parts, she mostly wrote: "ETC.". She typed it in all CAPS in 2 columns. Even though I was using the name "tentatively, a convenience" at the time, Bonnie chose to refer to me as "MT". W/ the exception of the 2 columns & some spelling errors & erratic spacing, I've mostly preserved Bonnie's original presentation here. - December 20, 2005 note]
[This interview is probably previously unpublished. When it 1st happened, I probably found it annoying & trite. Bonnie & I had a somewhat 'uneasy' friendship. I was probably annoyed by the subject matter & by her not bothering to type out her questions. In retrospect I'm just glad to have such an early interview. Thanks to Bonnie for doing it. I was no older than 25 at the time. For this online version I've interpolated pictures of things referred to that existed at the time & things referred to that I made later. - August 17, 2014 note from tENTATIVELY, a cONVENIENCE]
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MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
B: YOU THINK OF.. A.. THE WORD FASHION?
RARRHA
MT: THE CAT SHALL BE MY SPOKESMAN FOR THE MOMENT.
B: ETC.
MT: NO ACTUALLY.. I THINK VERY LITTLE ABOUT THE WORD FASHION, BUT I THINK MORE ABOUT WHAT THE WORD FASHION REPRESENTS
B: ETC.
MT: FASHION INTERESTS ME BEC
RARR..RARR..
AUSE THE PEOPLE WHO CONTROL THE FASHION CONTROL THE APPEARANCES OF MANY PEOPLE
B: A.. TELL ME, YOU HAVE AN INTERESTING FASHION ON TODAY. IT'S A GREEN SHIRT WITH A.. WHAT'S THAT DESIGN AGAIN? ()
MT: I FORGET.
B: SORT OF A.. SQUARES DESIGN AND HOLES IN EACH SQUARE THAT YOU'VE PUNCHED OUT HOW LONG DID IT TAKE YOU TO PUNCH OUT THOSE HOLES?
MT: OH.. ABOUT A WEEK
B: ETC. WELL, HOW MANY HOURS?
MT: THAT'S DIFFICULT TO SAY, BONNIE
B: DO YOU OFTEN SPEND A LONG TIME ON YOUR FASHIONS?
MT: YES, THEY'RE VERY IMPORTANT TO ME
B: ETC.
MT: I'VE NEVER READ ANY FASHION MAGAZINES IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE CONVENTIONAL CONCEPTION OF FASHION MAGAZINES ()
B: ETC. WHERE DO YOU THINK FASHIONS ARE HEADED TOWARD THESE DAYS, OR IN ()
MT: UHEH-HEMM.. ARE YOU REFERRING TO FASHION AS POPULAR FASHION, OR FASHION AS GARB IN GENERAL?
B: ETC.
MT: I HAVE LITTLE OR NO PREDICTIONS ABOUT GARB IN GENERAL. IN.. I MIGHT BE ABLE TO MAKE PREDICTIONS ABOUT MY OWN GARB.
B: ETC. THOSE?
MT: CERTAINLY MISS BONNELL
B: YOU MISSED A COUPLE SQUARES
MT: WHERE?
B: HERE, AND THERE, AND THERE
MT: OH, THOSE DON'T COUNT
B: OH THEY'RE NOT WHOLE ONES
MT: CORRECT
B: ETC.
MT: SHOULD I UNBUTTON MY COLLAR?
B: ETC.
MT: OH! IN REFERENCE TO MY OWN FASHIONS, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I'M PLANNING TO MAKE.. AS SOON AS I AM ABLE TO.. IS A LEPER-SKIN SUIT. THAT'S LEPER, NOT LEOPARD.
BEE-BEEP
B: ETC.
MT: OTHERWISE, I'M CONTEMPLATING SLIGHTLY UNENTHUSIASTICALLY MAKING GARB FROM CLOTHES HANGERS
B: ETC.
MT: AND FROM FRAME-OF-REFERENCE SHAPES.
photo: Polio Vasslene / Paula Gillen
B: ETC.
MT: THAT'S TOO COMPLICATED TO EXPLAIN AT THE MOMENT.
B: ETC. ARE YOU GOING TO DO ANYTHING WITH YOUR LITTLE FILMS?
Mike Film
MT: NO. NOT.. TO MAKE CLOTHING WITH.
B: ETC. ACCESSORIES
MT: WOULD A BELT BE CONSIDERED AN ACCESSORY?
B: ETC.
MT: AS YOU KNOW, BONNIE, I MAKE BELTS FROM EXTENSION CORDS, AND I'VE BECOME QUITE COMPETENT AT DOING THAT.
B: ETC.
MT: OTHERWISE..
B: WHAT ABOUT YOUR LITTLE FILMS, ARE YOU GOING TO MAKE ANY ACCESSORIES WITH THAT?
MT: NO, BONNIE, THAT WOULD BE INAPPROPRIATE.
B: ETC.
MT: BECAUSE.. THOSE FILMS ARE TO BE DISTRIBUTED
B: ETC.
MT: IN A CERTAIN WAY
B: ETC.
MT: THAT CONFLICTS WITH MAKING CLOTHING WITH THEM
B: ETC. ()
MT: GIVE ME A FEW OPPORTUNITIES TO SAY "BING!"
B: ETC. OH!.. WHAT DO THINK, UM, EATING DRINKING, BEING HIGH HAS TO DO WITH FASHION, OR DO YOU THINK IT HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH FASHION?
MT: YOUR QUESTIONS ARE VERY DIFFICULT FOR ME TO ANSWER, BONNIE. I CAN ONLY RESORT TO QUOTING MYSELF..
B: ETC.
MT: ..BY SAYING THAT ANYTHING IS ANYTHING AND THEREFORE SMOKING EATING AND DRINKING ARE HIGHLY RELEVANT TO FASHION
B: ETC. D.. TELL ME SOME MORE THINGS THAT ARE CONSIDERED, UM, ..M-M..FASHIONS THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE MORE OF THAT YOU DON'T SEE TOO MUCH OF
MT: OH.. METAPHORICALLY, ABORTED POST-CARD FASHIONS, OR FASHIONS CREATED BY FASHION CREATORS, THAT IS, POPULAR FASHIONS CREATED BY POPULAR FASHION CREATORS WHO EXPLOIT THE.. THOUGHTLESS FOLLOWERS OF POPULAR FASHION.
B: ETC.
MT: ..FOR EXAMPLE, I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE FASHIONABLE SHOES WITH SOLES THAT ARE LIKE FART PILLOWS. I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE THEM EXTREMELY FASHIONABLE AMONGST THE PEOPLE WHO ARE WEARING FARRAH FAUCET MAJORS HAIR-CUTS NOW, OR WHATEVER.
B: ETC.
MT: ..AND THAT COULD BE EXTRAPOLATED SUBSTANTIALLY
B: ETC.
MT: ..UM..HELIUM WATER-WINGS, FOR EXAMPLE, HELIUM FILLED WATER-WINGS; UM..SECONDS, THIRDS, FOURTHS, FIFTHS, DOMINANT SEVENTHS,
B: ETC. WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE COLORS ()
MT: OO, I'VE GOT ANOTHER GOOD IDEA
B: ETC.
MT: SPIKE HEELS THAT ARE SO SHARP THEY STICK IN THE GROUND WHEN PEOPLE WALK, MAYBE WITH HOOKS ON THE END SO THAT IT'S DIFFICULT TO UM
B: WALK IN THEM
MT: YES, EVEN MORE DIFFICULT TO WALK IN THEM THAT IS.
B: ETC. UM.. WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THE IDEA OF A RAZOR-BLADE WITH TWO LEGS WALKING DOWN THE STREET?.. AS A METAPHORIC EXAMPLE OF MODERN FASHION?
MT: AS AN EXAMPLE OF MODERN FASHION?
B: SOMEONE, SOMEONE I'VE ALREADY INTERVIEWED MADE THAT TERM "A TWO EDGED RAZOR-BLADE WALKING DOWN THE STREET WITH TWO LEGS" OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
MT: WOULD IT BE A VIOLATION OF CONFIDENTIALITY TO REVEAL THE PERSON WHO MADE THAT STATEMENT?
B: WELL.. M, AH.. ROBERT, FROM ZOLA'S
MT: IS HE A SHARP DRESSER?
B: I KNEW YOU'D SAY SOMETHING ABOUT THE PERSON, THAT'S WHY I DIDN'T WANT TO TELL YOU.
MT: I DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THE PERSON, I ASKED A QUESTION.
B: WELL, YES YOU DID.
MT: WAS THAT INTENDED TO BE A CUTTING REMARK?
B: NO!..I WAS JUST TRYING TO SEE HOW SHARP YOU WERE. WHAT DO YOU THINK, UM, DO YOU THINK, UM, ..AIR AND TIME AND ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH YOUR OWN PARTICULAR FASHION?, BESIDES THE FACT THAT IT EXISTS AROUND IT?
MT: I ADMITTEDLY HAVEN'T TAKEN AIR AND TIME INTO CONSIDERATION ENOUGH FOR MY FASHIONS, ALTHOUGH PERHAPS IF I'D STRAIN MY MEMORY FOR A BIT I'D FIND AN EXCEPTION.
B: ETC.
MT: THIS SHIRT IS PARTIALLY AN EXCEPTION TO THE AIR ASPECT
B: ETC.
MT: SO FAR AS IT IS DESIGNED TO PERMIT AIR TO FLOW THROUGH IT IN A CERTAIN WAY
B: ETC.
MT: AND PERHAPS IT TAKES TIME INTO CONSIDERATION TOO INSOFAR AS IT IS ALSO DESIGNED TO DETERIORATE, AND TO THEREFORE CHANGE ITS APPEARANCE.
B: ETC, HOW DID YOU MAKE THOSE LITTLE HOLES?
MT: WITH A HOLE PUNCHER
B: ETC. AH.. WHAT ABOUT YOUR HAIR, MICHAEL? UM.. WHAT KIND OF FASHION WOULD YOU CONSIDER YOUR HAIR ITERES[I'm not sure what word she meant here], LIKE, WHAT, WHAT INTERESTS OF FASHION? IN WHAT INTERESTS?
MT: THAT WAS A VERY GARBLED QUESTION,
B: ETC.
MT: UM.. SO PERHAPS I SHOULD ANSWER IT IN A VERY GARBLED MANNER, BUT ACTUALLY I WON'T BECAUSE I HAVE A COUPLE OF THINGS THAT I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE CLEAR.
B: ETC.
MT: UM..TWO HAIRCUTS THAT I'VE CONCEIVED OF THAT I WOULD LIKE TO EXECUTE ON MY HEAD,
B: ETC.
MT: ..ARE..ONE THAT INVOLVES LEAVING ONE LONG STRAND OF HAIR IN THE BACK
B: ETC.
MT: WHICH WOULD BE DIVIDED INTO T HE FIVE IGNORANCE UTTERS, OR T HE FIVE UTTERS OF IGNORANCE, AND THE REMAINING SURFACE OF MY HEAD WOULD BE COVERED WITH MUSTACHE SHAPES, AND MY FACE WOULD BE CLEAN-SHAVEN, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF MY EYEBROWS WHICH WOULD PROBABLY BE ALTERED TO LOOK MORE LIKE MUSTACHES,
B: ETC.
MT: ALTHOUGH POSSIBLY NOT, MAYBE THEY WOULD BE SHAVEN OFF ALSO. A MORE RECENT IDEA IS TO SHAVE MY HAIR INTO AN EXTREMELY CONVOLUTED BRAIN.
B: ETC.
MT: UM.. REGARDING ITS CURRENT CONDITION, I HAVEN'T COMBED MY HAIR FOR EIGHT AND A HALF YEARS NOW.
B: ETC.
MT: I HAVEN'T WASHED IT WITH SHAMPOO FOR APPROXIMATELY THE SAME TIME.
B: ETC.
MT: WITH OCCASIONAL EXCEPTIONS WHEN ATTEMPTING TO PLEASE CERTAIN PARTIES.
B: IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE IT HASN'T BEEN COMBED OR SHAMPOOED.
MT: A, I AM, I AM IN THE MIDST OF AND HAVE BEEN IN THE MIDST OF FOR QUITE SOME TIME DEVELOPING A USE FOR RUNNING MY FINGERS THROUGH IT OFTEN
B: ETC.
MT: FOR EXAMPLE WHILE ATTENDING A READING
B: ETC.
MT: THAT I CONSIDERED TO BE VERY BORING RECENTLY, I SAT IN THE MOST EXTREME POSITION OF THE AUDITORIUM, AND DIDN'T LISTEN TO THE PERSON READING, AND PULLED OUT AS MUCH HAIR AS I COULD AND DROPPED IT ON THE FLOOR. SO THAT SIMULTANEOUSLY COMBED IT SOMEWHAT.
B: ETC. DO YOU THINK THAT CERTAIN FASHIONS ARE MORE PRONE FOR PEOPLE TO DO CERTAIN THINGS WITH THEIR BODIES, A, SYMBOLS WHEN () THEY'RE DOING THINGS OR DANCING POSITIONS OR WHATEVER?
MT: SYMBOLS?
B: YOU KNOW LIKE THIS..AND THIS..
MT: DO I THINK THAT THE CLOTHING.. DO I THINK THAT THE CLOTHING IS, THAT SOME CLOTHING IS MORE PRONE TOWARDS M..
B: SYMBOLISTIC MANNER
MT: DO I THINK THAT SOME CLOTHING IS SYMBOLIC?
B: ETC.
MT: OR DO I THINK THAT SOME CLOTHING IS CONDUCIVE TOWARD THE MAKING OF SYMBOLIC GESTURES
B: ETC.
MT: OBVIOUSLY DISCO CLOTHING FOR EXAMPLE,
B: ETC.
MT: IS DESIGNED SO THAT CERTAIN FLUID. QUASI-SENSUAL GESTURES CAN BE
B: ETC.
MT: T ()
B: ETC.
MT: EXAGGERATED.
B: ETC. CAN YOU TELL ME ANYTHING THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO SAY ABOUT FASHION? CAN YOU THINK OF ANYTHING TO SAY? ANY IDEAS OR.. M-M, FOR THE PUBIC, PUBLIC?
MT: ANYTHING THAT I MIGHT HAVE TO SAY FOR THE PUBIC IS OFF THE RECORD. B: ETC.
MT: NO, ACTUALLY THAT'S WRONG. THAT'S INCORRECT. ANYTHING THAT I MIGHT HAVE TO SAY FOR THE PUBIC IS PROBABLY ON THE RECORD, BUT ANYTHING I HAVE TO SAY FOR THE PUBLIC IS PROBABLY OFF THE RECORD.
B: ETC.
MT: I THINK MY CLOSING WORD MIGHT BE STILTED.
B: ETC.
MT: BUT, CONTINUE.
B: ETC. ARE THERE ANY CLOTHES YOU LIKE TO DANCE IN MORE THAN ANY OTHER CLOTHES?
MT: IT DEPENDS UPON THE PLACE IN WHICH I'M DANCING.
B: ETC.
MT: UMM, IN CERTAIN PLACES I PREFER TO DANCE NUDE.. IT ALSO DEPENDS UPON THE DAY
B: ETC.
MT: THE TIME. MY DANCING TAKES MUCH MORE INTO CONSIDERATION PERHAPS THAN MY FASHION.
B: ETC.
MT: IF I'M DANCING IN A DISCO, THE HIPPO FOR EXAMPLE, WHICH HAS THE LIGHT SHOW
B: YOU LIKE TO USE CHAIRS AND..
MT: CHAIRS ARE OCCASIONALLY AN EXTENSION OF MY FASHION
B: ETC.
MT: A MOVING EXTENSION OF MY FASHION, BUT THAT'S RARE
B: ETC.
MT: NO, I PREFER TO WEAR THINGS LIKE POLKA-DOTTED SHIRTS UNDER POLKA-DOTTED
B: D POCHOS.
MT: FOR EXAMPLE. I OFTEN PREFER TO DANCE WITH THINGS ON THAT GLOW IN THE DARK
B: ETC. IN OTHER WORDS YOU THINK A.. A, VARIETY OF INTENSITIES, COLOR, AND VISUAL EXPERIENCES ARE IMPORTANT IN FASHION
MT: I DON'T THINK THAT ANYTHING IS IMPORTANT IN FASHION.
B: ETC.
MT: OR PROBABLY IN ANYTHING ELSE.
B: ETC. OH, EXCUSE ME, I MEAN YOU LIKE TO THINK ABOUT VARIETY OF COLOR AND WHATEVER I SAID IN FASHION
MT: YES.
B: YOU LIKE NOT TO THINK ABOUT IT,
MT: YES.
B: IS IT STILL GOING? OK WE'LL END IT, SHALL WE END IT? SAY YOUR LAST WORD.
MT: STILTWALKER.
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